Dan Rather Reports

Episode Number: 105

Episode Title: Exxon Valdez

Description: Seventeen years after the tanker Exxon Valdez spilled millions of gallons of oil, some residents of Alaska say the oil is still there and still causing environmental damage. Also, close encounters with grizzly bears in the wilds of Montana.

Transcript:

TONIGHT THE OIL SPILL THAT WONT GO AWAY. 17 YEARS AFTER THIS NATIONS WORST ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTER, ALASKANS WANT BILLIONS MORE FROM EXXON-MOBIL. WE'RE SEEING GOOD, CLEAN ROCKS ON TOP OF THE SURFACE, BUT UNDERNEATH THE SURFACE, THERE'S OIL STILL THERE. CAN THE U-S TRAIN AN ARMY OF IRAQIS? YOU'VE HEARD WHAT THE SO-CALLED EXPERTS IN WASHINGTON THINK NOW HEAR IT FROM U-S SOLDIERS WHO'VE WALKED THE WALK. FROM THE MINISTRY OF DEFENSE TO THE DIVISION TO THE BRIGADE TO THE BATTALION DOWN TO THE INDIVIDUAL SOLDIER LEVEL. IT WAS RIDICULOUSLY CORRUPT. I MEAN EVERYONE WAS ON THE TAKE. SCIENTISTS IN THE WILDS OF MONTANA ARE WATCHING THE GRIZZLIES LIKE A HAWK AS PEOPLE MOVE IN THE BEARS ARE CROWDED OUT THEY LOOK AT A PLACE LIKE GLACIER NATIONAL PARK MONTANA AND SAY THERE'S 400 BEARS ALL IS GOOD BUT THEY HAVE TO REALIZE THAT REPRESENTS 50 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION RIGHT NOW WHAT'S LEFT FOR GRIZZLY BEARS YOU CAN WALK AROUND IN A DAY. TONIGHT TRYING TO SAVE A SPECIES. ON DAN RATHER REPORTS.

GOOD EVENING. WHAT DO THE WAR IN IRAQ, THE U.S. ECONOMY, AND THE DEBATE OVER GLOBAL WARMING HAVE IN COMMON? SCRATCH THE SURFACE OF EACH OF THESE STORIES AND SOONER OR LATER YOU WILL COME UP AGAINST THE SUBJECT OF FOSSIL FUELS- THE NATURAL GAS AND THE OIL TO WHICH AMERICA AND MUCH OF THE WORLD IS ADDICTED. THEY ARE THE PRE-EMINENT NATURAL RESOURCE OF OUR ERA, AND THE QUEST FOR THESE RESOURCES DRIVES HEADLINES AND SPARKS OFTEN FIERCE POLITICAL DEBATE. PARTICULARLY WHEN THAT OIL AND GAS IS IN ALASKA. AFTER THE EXXON VALDEZ OIL SPILL, THE GOVERNMENT SUSPENDED MUCH OF THE OFFSHORE DRILLING FOR OIL AND GAS IN FEDERAL WATERS OFF THE ALASKAN COAST. BUT NOW, NEARLY TWO DECADES AFTER VALDEZ, THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION IS CONSIDERING LIFTING THE MORATORIUM ON DRILLING IN THE BERING SEA, OFF OF BRISTOL BAY, ALASKA. TO MANY IF NOT MOST AMERICANS, THE EXXON VALDEZ IS ALL BUT ANCIENT HISTORY- THE ANSWER TO A TRIVIA QUESTION. BUT NOT TO THE RESIDENTS OF CORDOVA, ALASKA- ONE OF THE COMMUNITIES HARDEST HIT BY THE SPILL. AND IN OUR FIRST STORY TONIGHT, WE'LL TAKE YOU TO SEE HOW THEY ARE COPING, STILL, WITH THE AFTERMATH OF VALDEZ. ALASKA'S MAGNIFICENT PRINCE WILLIAM SOUND THE SITE OF ONE OF OUR NATION'S LARGEST ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTERS IS ALSO A SEA OF TEARS. THE LIVES OF NATIVE TRIBES AND FISHERMEN AND TOUR OPERATORS AND THEIR FAMILIES THEIR LIVES AS THEY KNEW IT CAME TO AN END ONE NIGHT SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO. IT WAS GOOD FRIDAY, 1989. THE EXXON VALDEZ RAN AGROUND ON THE REEF BENEATH THIS MARKER, SPILLING SOME ELEVEN MILLION GALLONS OF OIL. WE REQUEST YOU TO PROCEED FOR POSSIBLE ASSIST OVER. THE CRUDE COVERED MORE THAN ONE THOUSAND MILES OF COASTLINE AND KILLED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF MARINE BIRDS AND MAMMALS. I HEARD ABOUT IT ON THE RADIO AND I HAD NO IDEA AT THE TIME (TEARS UP) I'M SORRY. BUT WHAT THE IMPLICATIONS WOULD BE YOU KNOW BECAUSE I MEAN EVEN AFTER IT HAPPENED EXXON CAME HERE AND THEY PROMISED. THEY TOLD THIS COMMUNITY " DON'T WORRY. YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE DAMAGES, WE WILL MAKE YOU WHOLE" . EXXON ACCEPTED BLAME IMMEDIATELY AND HAS PAID A TOTAL OF $3.5 BILLION DOLLARS TO CLEAN-UP THE OIL AND COMPENSATE ALASKANS AND BUSINESSES. AFTER HUNDRED OF SCIENTIFIC STUDIES, EXXON CONCLUDES " THERE ARE NO LONG- TERM SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS FROM THE SPILL" . END OF STORY? NOT SO FAST? TIM JOYCE, THE MAYOR OF CORDOVA, IS AMONG THOUSANDS OF FOLKS IN ALASKA WHO WANT EXXON TO PAY AN ADDITIONAL $4.5 BILLION. THAT'S THE PUNITIVE-DAMAGES AWARD EXXON WAS ORDERED TO PAY BUT HAS BEEN APPEALING FOR YEARS. BEFORE THE SPILL, CORDOVA WAS A BIG-TIME, MONEY-MAKING FISHING PORT. WE HAD PRETTY MUCH A THRIVING ECONOMY HERE YOU KNOW. PEOPLE WERE BUSY, THEY WERE ALWAYS, SOMETHING GOING ON ALL YEAR LONG AND EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN'T ACTUALLY GET OIL ON THE BEACH RIGHT HERE IN CORDOVA, THAT SPILL IMPACTED PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE ECONOMY BECAUSE EVERYBODY THAT WORK HERE THAT MADE THEIR LIVING FROM THE SEA, WOULD COME INTO THE STORES LIKE THIS AND DO BUSINESS. AND WHEN THAT HAPPENED, THAT BUSINESS ALL WENT AWAY. LINDEN O'TOOLE SAYS HER $350,000 INVESTMENT IN FISHING EQUIPMENT AND PERMITS ALL BUT VANISHED, WE GOT TO THE VERGE OF BANKRUPTCY. WE TALKED TO A BANKRUPTCY ATTORNEY WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO GET OUT OF FISHING BECAUSE WE HAD TO BUY OUR WAY OUT OF FISHING. MANY PEOPLE LEFT CORDOVA, BUT SHE DID NOT: I WAS ABLE TO FIND A NICHE THAT WASN'T FILLED TO SUPPORT MY FAMILY. DAN: THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS. A: YES, I HAVE A LITTLE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS HERE. AND IT'S SMALL. AND MY HUSBAND IS, YOU KNOW, " WELL, HE'S A HIGHLINER BECAUSE HIS WIFE HAS A JOB. THAT'S THE NEW DEFINITION OF A HIGHLINER IN TOWN. IT'S A FISHERMAN WHOSE WIFE HAS A JOB SO THAT THEY SHE CAN SUSTAIN THEM AND THEY CAN CONTINUE TO LIVE HERE, BECAUSE IT WASN'T A MATTER OF LOSING HIS JOB. IT'S A MATTER OF LOSING YOUR COMMUNITY AND YOUR HOME AND YOUR FIENDS, AND BEING DISPLACED RIGHT OUT OF YOUR HOME. WE'RE IN THE MUSEUM THERE'S BEAR TRAPS, OLD MINING EQUIPMENT, OLD FISHING EQUIPMENT. AND THEN SLAP DAB IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, THIS IS EXXON VALDEZ OIL? IT'S PART OF OUR HISTORY NEARLY EVERYBODY THAT LIVED IN TOWN, AT SOME POINT, UTILIZED PRINCE WILLIAM SOUND, AND THAT'S WHERE THE OIL WAS. THESE JARS OF OLD OIL ARE NOT JUST MUSEUM PIECES. OIL IS STILL ON THE SHORELINE OF REMOTE ISLANDS OWNED BY THE CHUGASH NATIVES, WHERE PETE KAMPKOFF IS THE TRIBE'S PRESIDENT: DAN Q: AS YOU WALK DOWN THE BEACH, WHAT IS IT YOU SEE HERE? WE'RE SEEING GOOD, CLEAN ROCKS ON TOP OF THE SURFACE, BUT UNDERNEATH THE SURFACE, THERE'S OIL STILL THERE. IT'S SOME OF IT'S REALLY HARD. IT'S LIKE ASPHALT, HARDENED OVER YEARS. BUT WHEN THE SUN HITS THAT ASPHALT, IT MELTS DOWN AND THE SHEEN COMES OUT OF IT, AND ALL THAT STUFF GOES DOWN THE BEACH INTO THE MICROORGANISMS THAT LIVE ON THE SHORELINE. AND YOU CAN SEE THE SEDIMENT IN THERE. IT'S JUST CONGEALED. Q: AND THIS WAS 10 YEARS AFTER? A: 10 YEARS LATER. THEN THIS ONE WAS TAKEN THIS YEAR, 17 YEARS LATER. YOU CAN SMELL IT, TOO. IT'S STILL GONNA HAVE AN ODOR TO IT. YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THAT. EXXON AGREES THERE IS STILL SOME OIL IN THE ROCKS. THE COMPANY REFUSED TO BE INTERVIEWED BUT IN AN EMAIL, THEY WRITE THAT " SMALL POCKETS OF SEQUESTERED AND DEGRADED OIL RESIDUES REMAIN SCATTERED IN ISOLATED POCKETS ON LESS THAN TWO-TENTHS OF ONE PERCENT OF THE PRINCE WILLIAMS SOUND SHORELINE." BUT, EXXON CONTINUES, " WE DO NOT AGREE THAT THIS OIL REMAINS BIO- AVAILABLE SUCH THAT IT COULD BE CAUSING ' ON-GOING SUBSTANTIAL AND CONTINUING' DECLINE TO ANY SPECIES." PROFESSOR BILL RODGERS HAS AN ARGUMENT FOR THAT. AN EXPERT IN ENVIRONMENTAL LAW, RODGERS CHALLENGED HIS LAW STUDENTS TO COME UP WITH ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO RE-OPEN THE LEGAL CASE AGAINST EXXON. THIS SPRING, THEY DID. YOU KNOW THAT PLENTY OF PEOPLE SAY THIS: IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME AGO. MAYBE THERE'S A LITTLE RESIDUE LEFT, BUT NOT MUCH. AND FRANKLY, THAT ARGUMENT STRIKES MY EARS ON SOME DAYS IN SOME WAYS AS REASONABLE. AH, YOU WOULD THINK SO. BUT IN THE ACCOUNT THAT THE GOVERNMENTS GIVE, THE OIL HAS STAYED THERE UNDER CIRCUMSTANCES THAT THEY DID NOT ANTICIPATE AND IT BECOMES WHAT THEY DESCRIBE AS BIO-AVAILABLE, MEANING IT'S RIGHT THERE IN TOXIC FORM AND THE SPECIES THAT GO INTO THAT HABITAT ARE ESPECIALLY VULNERABLE. HOW AND WHY ARE THE NATIVE ALASKANS STILL BEING HARMED, IN YOUR OPINION? THE LATEST STUDY BY THE FISH & WILDLIFE SERVICE IDENTIFIED 13, 14 DIFFERENT RESOURCES THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN RECOVERED. AMONG THOSE ARE SHELLFISH, CLAMS, MUSSELS. SOME OF THE BIRDS, THE HARBOR SEALS THAT THE NATIVES HUNT REGULARLY. WE LOST OUR SUSTAINABILITY. AND WE'RE STILL WONDERING IF SOME OF THE FOOD THAT WE'RE EATING SOME OF THE BOTTOM FISH THAT WE EAT HAVE A LONG TERM EFFECT ON US BECAUSE OF THE OIL. THAT INCLUDES SHELL FISH? THERE'S BEEN CRABBERS THAT BRING UP SHELL FISH CRAB, IN PRINCE WILLIAM SOUND, THAT HAS OIL ON THEM STILL. AND, THIS IS PRESENT TO THIS DAY. WHAT ABOUT THE EXXON ARGUMENT. IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME AND THE COMPANY SAYS, "LISTEN, WE PAID COMPENSATION TO SOME PEOPLE. SETTLED SOME CASES. WE PAID FOR THE CLEANUP. WE'VE CHANGED THE STRUCTURE OF OUR COMPANY. WE NO LONGER HAVE TANKERS LIKE WE USED TO HAVE. AND WE'VE PAID OUR DUES AND IT'S TIME TO PUT THIS BEHIND US. HEY, THE ANSWER THAT YOU'VE HEARD FROM MANY PEOPLE IS "YOU'VE PAID A LOT, BUT YOU HAVEN'T PAID YOUR DUES." AND THE MAYOR WHO IS ALSO A FISHERIES BIOLOGIST WANTS EXXON TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT HAPPENED TO CORDOVA'S ONCE $12- MILLION-A-YEAR HERRING INDUSTRY. SO IT'S THE HERRING THAT'S BASICALLY THE HERRING ARE GONE. THE HERRING HAVE BEEN A PUZZLE FOR SCIENTISTS RICHARD THORNE AND RICHARD CRAWFORD AMONG THEM BECAUSE THE HERRING POPULATION COLLAPSED UNTIL FOUR YEARS AFTER THE SPILL. THE FISHERMEN WENT OUT AND THERE WERE NO HERRING. AND, SO THEY SAID, "WELL, SOMETHING'S WRONG HERE." WHILE THE SPILL HAS BEEN A PERSISTENT SUSPECT, A MYSTERY REMAINED BECAUSE FISH LIVE UNDER WATER AND THE OIL WAS ON THE SURFACE. THEN, ADVANCES IN TECHNOLOGY ALLOWED SCIENTISTS TO WATCH PREDATORS ATTACK THE HERRING AT NIGHT WE HAD DEVELOPED SOME INFRARED INSTRUMENTS THE SAME NIGHTTIME VISION THAT OUR SOLDIER'S USE. BUT THESE LITTLE BLACK BUBBLES PRODUCING THOSE ARE THE HERRING COMING TO THE SURFACE SO THERE WAS NO QUESTION WHATSOEVER THAT A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF THOSE HERRING POPULATIONS CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE OIL AS THEY CAME AND TRIED TO GULP AIR CONTACT WITH OIL, THESE SCIENTISTS CONTEND, SLOWED THE HERRING DOWN, MAKING IT EASIER FOR PREDATORS TO EAT THEM AND THE POPULATION TO COLLAPSE: NOW, WHAT YOU'RE REPORTING IS NOT GONNA BE MUSIC TO EXXON/MOBIL'S EARS. WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST TRYING TO REPORT THE FACTS AS THEY ARE, AND WHAT LET CONSEQUENCES FALL FROM THAT, BUT THOSE WHO HELPED BILL RODGERS' IN HIS WORK AGAINST EXXON WOULDN'T GO THAT FAR: I REMEMBER THE SCIENTIST WHO SAID, " THIS QUESTION OF HERRING WAS THE MOST DIFFICULT FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE" THE DECIDED THEY DIDN'T QUITE HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO LINK THE DECLINE OF THE HERRING TO THE SPILL AND THEN HE SAID, HOWEVER, IN MY OWN HEART, I THINK OTHERWISE. YOU'RE A SCIENTIST BY TRAINING. YES. YOU KNOW THAT SCIENTISTS HAVE SAID, 'WE'VE LOOKED AT THIS AND IT MAY BE A CLOSE CALL, BUT WE DON'T THINK THE DECLINE, EVEN THE DISAPPEARANCE ALMOST, OF HERRING, HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE OIL SPILL'. IT'S NOT BLACK-AND-WHITE. THERE'S NO 'SMOKING GUN' THAT YOU CAN POINT TO AND SAY; 'HERE IT IS. THIS CAUSED IT. BUT I THINK THERE'S ENOUGH CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE TO SHOW THAT, IN FACT, THERE WAS AN AFFECT. AND IN FACT, THIS PROBABLY HAD A MAJOR EFFECT ON THESE FISH. AND IN A SCIENTIFIC WORLD, SCIENTISTS DON'T LIKE TO GO OUT ON A LIMB. WHAT THESE EXPERTS ARE DOING IS HIGH STAKES SCIENCE. WHEN YOU OUR GO OUT AND ACTUALLY LOOK WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE ENVIRONMENT, THEN YOU REALLY GET A TREMENDOUS APPRECIATION OF HOW IMPORTANT HERRING ARE. WHEN WE FOCUSED ON WHO IS EATING HERRING INCLUDING THE STELLAR SEA LIONS, WE REALIZED THAT EVERYBODY IS THERE. AND SOME OF THOSE SPECIES, THE ENDANGERED STELLAR SEA LIONS AMONG THEM, ARE IN DECLINE, DR. THORNE SAYS BECAUSE THERE ARE FEWER HERRING: I KNOW YOU ARE AWARE DOCTOR THAT EXXON TAKES THE VIEW AND THEY HAVE A FAIR AMOUNT OF SUPPORTING SCIENTIFIC DATA, SAYING THE EFFECTS OF THE EXXON VALDEZ OIL SPILL, THERE WERE LARGE SHORT TERM CONSEQUENCES, BUT THERE ARE NO SIGNIFICANT EVIDENCE OF MAJOR LONG TERM CONSEQUENCES. TO ME IT IS DIFFICULT TO SEE HOW THEY CAN SAY THAT BECAUSE WE CAN LOOK AT THE PRINCE WILLIAM SOUND ECOSYSTEM, WE CAN SEE THE EXTENT AND DAMAGE OF THOSE SHORT TERM PROBLEMS AND THE DEFINITE LINKAGE TO THE OIL SPILL THAT CAUSED THEM AND NOW MANY YEARS WE ARE SEEING THOSE PROBLEMS STILL EXIST. SO, WE HAVEN'T RECOVERED. BY DEFINITION THESE ARE LONG TERM PROBLEMS AND LONG TERM RESPONSES. IS THE BREATH-TAKING PRINCE WILLIAM SOUND RECOVERED OR IS IT CHANGED FOREVER? THE BIG PROFITS OIL COMPANIES LIKE EXXON HAVE MADE LAST YEAR, THE COMPANY REPORTED A RECORD $36 BILLION PROFIT HAVE ONLY FUELED BAD FEELINGS IF THEY CAN MAKE THAT MUCH MONEY IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME THEY SHOULD PAY THE BILLS DUE. FRUSTRATION? YES. ANGER? YES, AFTER ALL THESE YEARS? A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN UP. THEY'VE SAID: ' I'M NEVER GOING TO SEE IT. I CERTAINLY AM NOT GO TO BASE MY LIFE ON THIS. WE CAN'T RUN THE CITY BASED ON WHAT WE MIGHT GET BECAUSE IT IS VERY POSSIBLE WE WON'T GET ANYTHING AT ALL. DAN: I WANT TO PUT THIS QUESTION RESPECTFULLY, BUT ALSO DELICATELY. TO THOSE WHO SAY, "AFTER 17 YEARS, THESE PEOPLE, INCLUDING YOURSELF, THEY'RE JUST WHINING AND ARE AFTER THE MONEY. TO A PERSON WHO SAYS THAT, YOU WOULD SAY WHAT? I WOULD SAY SOMEBODY LIKE MY HUSBAND WOULD LOVE TO HAVE HIS JOB BACK. HE'S BEEN A CREW MEMBER SINCE HE LOST HIS BOAT AND PERMIT. DO YOU EXPECT TO SEE THE MONEY?

I DON'T THINK ABOUT IT MUCH. I HOPE SO. DAN: FAIR OR UNFAIR, ACCURATE OR INACCURATE TO SAY THAT WE HAD THIS LONG A DELAY, IT'S ADVANTAGE TO THE CORPORATION? OH YES. AS YOU SAY, FAIR OR UNFAIR. CERTAINLY EXXON HAS PLAYED BY THE RULES AND THEY HAVE HAD A TREMENDOUS SUCCESS RATE. THEY KEEP WINNING THIS IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S A MERRY-GO-ROUND THAT EVERY ONE WANTS TO GET OFF, BUT CANNOT. PERHAPS THE FINAL IRONY HERE IS LIKENING WHAT'S HAPPENED TO A MERRY-GO-ROUND WITH THE LIVES OF PEOPLE AND THEIR ENVIRONMENT, ACCIDENTS, AND EVER-CHANGING LAW AND TECHNOLOGY CIRCLING ROUND. IN THE END, THE APPARENT LESSONS ARE DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED: ALASKANS SAY THEY LEARNED THAT BIG COMPANIES DO NOT CARE ABOUT THEM, THEIR JOBS, THEIR CULTURE, AND THEY CALL SPILL " THE DAY THE WATER DIED" WHILE EXXON MOBILE, WHICH REFUSED TO PARTICIPATE ON CAMERA FOR THIS REPORT, EMAILED THIS: " SCIENCE HAS LEARNED IN ALASKA THAT THE ENVIRONMENT HAS REMARKABLE POWERS OF RECOVERY." WITH THE COMPANY CHIEF SPOKESMAN FOR THE SPILL SAYING NATURE IS A WONDERFUL THING, BECAUSE IT CLEANSES ITSELF.

WITH THE RELEASE OF THE BIPARTISAN IRAQ STUDY GROUP REPORT LAST WEEK THAT URGED A SHIFT IN US POLICY TOWARD IRAQ, YOU'VE HEARD A LOT ABOUT WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING FROM POLITICIANS, ALLEGED EXPERTS AND GENERALS IN WASHINGTON. MUCH OF THAT TALK IS ABOUT EVENTUALLY BRINGING OUR TROOPS HOME BY BOOSTING THE NUMBER OF AMERICAN ADVISERS WORKING TO STRENGTHEN THE IRAQI SECURITY FORCES. IT MAY SOUND GOOD IN A REPORT OR A SOUND BITE, BUT WILL IT WORK? IT IS, IN ITS ESSENCE, JUST A PROPOSAL TO BEEF UP A STRATEGY THAT HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR SOME TIME WITH DECIDEDLY MIXED RESULTS AT BEST. JUST THIS WEEKEND, THE PRESIDENT OF IRAQ CALLED THE TRAINING OF HIS ARMY "MOVING FROM FAILURE TO FAILURE." TONIGHT, WE GET A " BOOTS-ON-THE- GROUND" PERSPECTIVE FROM TWO AMERICAN SERVICEMEN WELL ACQUAINTED WITH WHAT IT TAKES TO TRAIN AN IRAQI MILITARY. LIEUTENANT COLONEL MICHAEL ZACCHEA OF THE MARINE CORP RESERVE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST SENIOR TRAINING ADVISORS TO LAND IN IRAQ IN MARCH 2004. HIS MISSION TO REBUILD THE IRAQI SECURITY FORCES THAT WERE DISBANDED BY THE AMERICANS. ARMY RESERVE STAFF SERGEANT BEONKO SAMPSON RECENTLY RETURNED FROM IRAQ THIS SUMMER. HE SAYS HE WAS SURPRISED WHEN THE MILITARY TAPPED HIM IN MAY 2005 TO HELP BUILD A TRAINING CENTER FOR IRAQI RECRUITS NEAR MOSUL, A CITY IN NORTHERN IRAQ. THE MILITARY DOESN'T SEND DRILL SERGEANTS TO TRAIN FOREIGN TROOPS. WE'RE ONLY SUPPOSED TO TRAIN YOU KNOW AMERICAN TROOPS. I WAS SURPRISED YOU KNOW, AT THE SAME TIME, KINDA A LITTLE BIT PROUD TO ACTUALLY GO INTO COMBAT AND T DO A DRILL SERGEANTS JOB. COLONEL ZACCHEA, WHO WAS A RECRUITING SPECIALIST, RECEIVED ONLY 10 DAYS OF TRAINING ON HOW TO BE A MILITARY ADVISOR BEFORE HE WAS DISPATCHED TO KIRKUSH, IRAQ TO TRAIN HUNDREDS OF WOULD- BE SOLDIERS. WE SOUGHT TO TEACH THEM THE INTANGIBLES OF LEADERSHIP, ESPRIT DE CORPS AND VERY BASIC RIFLEMAN SKILLS. BUT THE PROBLEM IS WE DIDN'T HAVE NEARLY THE EQUIPMENT OR THE RESOURCES TO THAT YOU HAVE TO DO THAT. IN FACT WE HAD NOTHING. AND WE HAD TO MAKE IT UP. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU HAD NOTHING? OUR BUILDINGS WE'RE NOT YET READY. WE HAD NO RUNNING WATER. WE HAD NO ELECTRICITY. WE HAD NO UNIFORMS. WE HAD NO WEAPONS. WE HAD NO VEHICLES. WE HAD NO COMMUNICATIONS. WE HAD NO FURNITURE. WE HAD NO COMPUTERS. WE HAD NO PENS AND PAPER. I MEAN WE HAD NOTHING WHEN WE STARTED. AND EVERY THING WE GOT, WE EITHER HAD TO STEAL OR BORROW OR SCAVENGE FROM JUST WHEREVER WE COULD GET STUFF TO CONDUCT THIS TRAINING. AND YOUR MISSION WAS TO DO WHAT? (SAMPSON) WELL OUR ORIGINAL MISSION WAS TO GO INTO A TRAINING FACILITY AND TWEAK THE PROGRESS THAT WAS ALREADY GOING ON THERE. BUT WHEN WE GOT THERE WE QUICKLY REALIZED THAT THERE WAS NO TRAINING CENTER. YOU DIDN'T FIND ANY PROGRESS? THE ARMY IS TELLING ME THAT HEY WE NEED A REASONABLE TRAINING CENTER UP AND RUNNING IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS. WE DON'T HAVE A PAPER CLIP. WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO DO ANY THING. THESE BUILDING S AREN'T FINISHED. NO BODY KNOWS NOTHING. YOU KNOW WE HAD SIX PEOPLE, NO RADIOS, BARELY GOT A PLACE TO SLEEP. AND THAT WAS THE SITUATION IN 2005? YES. THIS WAS QUITE A WHILE AFTER THE COLONEL HAD HIS TIME ON THIS POINT? YES. ZACCHEA'S TROOPS INITIALLY BONDED AND WERE EXCITED BY THE PROSPECT OF HELPING TO REBUILD A UNITED IRAQ EVEN THOUGH HIS SOLDIERS WERE KURDISH, SUNNI AND SHITE. WE HAD YOU KNOW, DIFFERENCES OF RELIGION, DIFFERENCES OF LANGUAGE, DIFFERENCES OF ETHNICITY. BUT WE DID NOT EXPERIENCE ANY OF THE SECTARIAN OR ETHNIC TENSION THAT CHARACTERIZES IRAQ NOW. DID THAT SURPRISE YOU?

REALLY WHAT'S GOING ON NOW SURPRISES ME MORE THAN THE FACT THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY OF THAT WHEN I WAS THERE. THERE WAS A LOT OF BAD BLOOD GOING BACK MANY, MANY YEARS. ALL THE IRAQIS SUFFERED HORRIBLY. MANY OF THE KURDS HAD FAMILY MEMBERS, BROTHERS, SISTERS, WHO WERE KILLED BY THE (RATHER) SADDAM HUSSEIN'S PEOPLE? (ZACCHEA) RIGHT. THE SAME WITH THE SHIA. SO THERE WAS EVERY REASON TO HAVE THAT KIND OF TENSION. BUT I WAS REALLY, REALLY PLEASED THAT THEY TRIED TO MAKE A GO OF IT AS FAR AS YOU KNOW, THEY CALLED IT WAHA IRAQ, MEANS, ONE IRAQ. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT OUR BATTALION USED TO SAY IS " S/L NATICALLUM BE SAD WHAHEAD," WHICH MEANS " WE SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE." AND THAT'S THE KIND OF ESPIRT AND COHERENCE WE WERE TRYING TO BUILD. ALMOST TWO YEARS LATER, THE BATTALION ZACCHEA HELPED TO BUILD NO LONGER SPEAKS WITH ONE VOICE. HE SAYS THE SOLDIERS IN HIS BATTALION NOW SEPARATE THEMSELVES ALONG SECTERIAN LINES. . THE UNIT HAS BEEN FRACTURED ALONG THE SUNNI AND SHIA LINES BECAUSE IT'S TOO DANGEROUS FOR THE SHIA TO MOVE INTO THE SUNNI AREAS. AND TOO DANGEROUS FOR THE SUNNIS TO MOVE INTO THE SHIA AREAS. SO WHAT WE HAD DONE, YOU KNOW THE ESPIRT THAT WE BUILT, THE COHESION WE HAD BUILT HAS REALLY SORT OF DISAPPEARED IN SAY THE LAST YEAR WHICH IS PRETTY YOU KNOW IT'S DISHEARTENING. WHAT WAS DISHEARTENING TO SERGEANT SAMPSON WAS NOT ONLY THE ETHNIC PROBLEMS BUT THE QUALITY OF THE IRAQI RECRUITS. ONCE THE FIRST STAFFING PERSONNEL CAME IN, WE HAD TO TRAIN THOSE PEOPLE. YOU KNOW WE HAD TO TRAIN THEM ON HOW TO BE TRAINERS AND TO BE FACULTY AND STAFF AT THE TRAINING FACILITY YOU KNOW. SO A LOT OF THEM WERE WAY TOO OLD TO BE EFFECTIVE PHYSICAL FITNESS TRAINING GUY WAS LIKE MAYBE 65 OR 70 YEARS OLD. (RATHER) SIXTY-FIVE OR SEVENTY YEARS OLD? YES. AND THEY HAD HIM DOWN AS A PHYSICAL FITNESS TRAINER. YOU KNOW A LOT OF THEM HAD RETIRED AND THE ECONOMIC SITUATION THERE WAS SO BAD IT'S LIKE THE OLD MILITARY WAS GETTING PAID $3 A MONTH, THEN IT CHANGED TO $300 DOLLARS A MONTH, SO YOU DO THE MATH. EVERYONE WAS TRYING TO GET THREE HUNDRED A MONTH. CAUSE THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY THERE. BUT THEY WERE ALSO THERE TO LEARN. WHEN SAMPSON SHOWED SOME OF THE RECRUITS HOW TO USE SOMETHING NEW LIKE A LAND NAVIGATION SYSTEM, THEY WERE HUNGRY FOR MORE. ITS LIKE OPENING UP THE FLOOD GATES. THEY JUST WANT TO LEARN, LEARN, LEARN, MORE, MORE, MORE, (RATHER) YOU'RE SAYING LAND NAVIGATION. YOUR TALKING ABOUT OLD FASHIONED COMPASS OR MORE COMPLICATED? (SAMPSON) WELL, WE STARTED OFF WITH THE OLD FASHIONED COMPASS AND A MAP. JUST SHOWING THEM HOW TO READ A MAP. MOST OF THEM NEVER SEEN A MAP. (RATHER) YOU DON'T MEAN LITERALLY THEY'VE NEVER SEEN A MAP TO READ IT? (SAMPSON) I MEAN LITERALLY NEVER SEEN A MAP TO READ IT. (RATHER) DID YOU EVER OR DID YOU NOT FIND YOURSELF, SERGEANT SOMETIMES SAYING " WHEW. WHAT AM I INTO HERE?" (SAMPSON) ALL THE TIME BUT THE BIGGEST PROBLEM BOTH SOLDIERS FACED WAS PAYCHECKS FOR THE RECRUITS. THE WAY THE IRAQI ARMY IS STRUCTURED. AT ANY GIVEN TIME, ONE QUARTER IS ON LEAVE. BECAUSE THERE'S NO BANKING SYSTEM. SO, THEY HAVE TO GET THE THEIR PAY IN HAND. AND THEY HAVE TO WALK IN A WEEK OR HITCH A RIDE OR WHATEVER TO WHEREVER THEY LIVE, DELIVER THE MONEY THERE AND THEN COME BACK. SO, THE WHOLE THING IS BUILT AROUND THIS 25 PERCENT BEING ON LEAVE AT ANY GIVEN TIME. AND YOU HAVE TO ROTATE IT. SO, ONE-FOURTH OF YOUR FORCE IS ON LEAVE AT ANY GIVEN TIME? YES. SO, THAT'S WHAT YOU KNOW, EVERY ADVISOR HAS TO DEAL WITH. AND IT LOGISTICALLY, IT BECOMES A REAL NIGHTMARE AND IT WHEN THE PAY 'CAUSE THERE WERE A LOTTA PROBLEMS WITH THE PAY AND ABSENTEEISM AND CARRYING GHOST SOLDIERS ON THE ROLLS. OR THERE ARE PLENTY OF SOLDIERS WHO WILL DOUBLE ENLIST. THAT IS, THEY WILL DO TWO WEEKS IN ONE UNIT AND TWO WEEKS IN ANOTHER UNIT, DRAW DOUBLE PAY. WHEN WE FINALLY GOT THE REGIONAL TRAINING CENTER UP AND RUNNING, THE COLONEL THAT WAS OVER THE REGIONAL TRAINING CENTER HAD TO SEND A MESSENGER UP TO BAGHDAD. TRAVEL UP THE MOST DANGEROUS ROAD IN THE WORLD TO BAGHDAD, COME BACK WITH A SACKS FULL OF MONEY, IRAQ MONEY. COME ALL THE WAY DOWN THERE AND PAY EM. ONE OF THE MESSENGERS THAT WENT DOWN THERE, GREAT, YOUNG OFFICER, HE WENT DOWN THERE, HE GOT KILLED.

AND EVERY BODY WAS LIKE - THEY DIDN'T WANNA GO. SO WHO'S GONNA BE YOUR NEXT MESSENGER? WELL, COLONEL PUT THIS IN PERSPECTIVE. YOU WERE AN OFFICER IN A MUCH MORE COMMAND POSITION. WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THE MONEY? (ZACCHEA) I WOULD SAY A LOT OF GRAFT AND KICK-BACKS. WE ACTUALLY HAD VERY SIMILAR PROBLEMS WE HAD DISPATCHED OUR ACTING AGITANT BACK TO BAGHDAD TO GET THE BATTALIONS MONEY AND HE ABSCONDED. HE LEFT WITH THE MONEY. (RATHER) WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE LEFT WITH THE MONEY? YOU MEAN HE DISAPPEARED? (ZACCHEA) YES WITH THE WHOLE BATTALION'S PAYROLL. AND IF THE BATTALION HAD KNOWN ABOUT THAT, THEY WOULD HAVE MUTINIED. I MEAN THE BATTALION WOULD'VE YOU NOW SHATTERED. (RATHER) BUT, YOU DIDN'T TELL THEM? NO. I REQUESTED AN AUDIT OF ALL THE PAY RECORDS YOU KNOW FROM THE TOP TO BOTTOM. FROM THE MINISTRY OF DEFENSE TO THE DIVISION TO THE BRIGADE TO THE BATTALION DOWN TO THE INDIVIDUAL SOLDIER LEVEL. IT WAS RIDICULOUSLY CORRUPT. I MEAN EVERYONE WAS ON THE TAKE. EVERYBODY GOT THIS CUT? (ZACCHEA) RIGHT. AND THAT WAS LEFT OVER FROM THE OLD ARMY. THE OLD ARMY WAS LIKE A PLANTATION SYSTEM WHERE YOU KNOW YOU COULD BUY ANY THING. YOU COULD BUY YOUR LEAVE. YOU COULD BUY YOUR WAY OUT OF DUTY. AND THE COLONEL SAYS THE CORRUPTION DIDN'T JUST INVOLVE THE PAYROLL. I'LL, I'LL TELL YOU. I SORT OF HAD AN EPIPHANY. I WAS WATCHING THE SOPRANOS. AND THEY, IT WAS AN EPISODE WHERE THEY WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEFRAUD THE NEW JERSEY SPORTS AUTHORITY. AND THEY WERE COMING UP WITH A CONTRACT. AND THEY SAID, OKAY, THIS IS GONNA BE A TEN-MAN JOB. FIVE WORK. TWO NO WORK. AND THREE NO SHOW. I SAID, THAT'S THE WAY THIS ARMY IS BEING RUN. THAT'S THE THAT'S THE WHOLE THING IN A NUTSHELL. AS SOON AS YOU CAN FIGURE OUT THE ANGLES, YOU CAN FIGURE OUT THE WAY EVERYTHING WORKS. AND ONCE YOU CAN FIGURE OUT THE WAY EVERYTHING WORKS, THEN YOU CAN BE EFFECTIVE. NOW I'M GONNA ASK YOU FOR YOUR OPINION WHICH IS ALL YOU CAN GIVE ME. WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE? ONE COULD UNDERSTAND IT PERHAPS IN THE BEGINNING, IN THE EARLY GOING. BUT TWO AND A HALF YEARS OF THIS, IS THIS THE MILITARY'S RESPONSIBILITY? WHO'S ACCOUNTABLE FOR THIS? (ZACCHEA) I HAVE TO TELL YOU I REALLY AND TRULY BELIEVE IT'S THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE. ONE OF THE THINGS YOU LEARN AS AN OFFICER IS THAT YOU DESIGNATE A FOCUS OF MAIN EFFORT. AND THAT IS THE GAMBIT FOR VICTORY. SO IF OUR GAMBIT FOR VICTORY IS AS THE IRAQIS STAND UP, WE'LL STAND DOWN, THEN ALL THE RESOURCES AND ALL THE SUPPORT SHOULD BE GOING TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GONNA BUILD THE IRAQI ARMY AND SECURITY FORCES. THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED. IN FACT, LAST WEEK A BIPARTISAN COMMITTEE SUGGESTED BOOSTING THE NUMBER OF TRAINING ADVISERS FROM APPROXIMATELY 5,000 TO AS MANY AS 20,000 SO AMERICAN COMBAT TROOPS CAN COME HOME. YOU'VE TRAINED IRAQI FORCES. YOU'VE BEEN THERE. DO YOU THINK IT CAN BE FIXED? DO YOU THINK THE MISSION CAN BE SAVED? (ZACCHEA) AT THIS POINT, I THINK THE MOMENTUM IN THE WRONG DIRECTION IS WE CAN'T OVERCOME IT POLITICALLY. MILITARILY, I THINK WE COULD IF WE HAD THE WILL. BUT POLITICALLY, I DON'T THINK WE CAN. WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA THAT WE HAVE TO WIN, WHATEVER THE DEFINITION OF WIN IS. THAT IF WE SEND ANOTHER 100,000, ANOTHER 150,000 TROOPS IT MIGHT STABILIZE THE COUNTRY. BASED ON YOUR EXPERIENCE WHAT DO YOU THINK? (ZACCHEA) I THINK IT WOULD TAKE A LOT MORE. HONESTLY, I THINK IT WOULD TAKE ANOTHER 500,000 TROOPS TO STABILIZE THE COUNTRY. (RATHER) AND HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE? (ZACCHEA) TO STABILIZE THE COUNTRY I THINK IT WILL TAKE A COUPLE OF YEARS TO BUILD A SELF-SUSTAINING IRAQI ARMY, CAPABLE OF DEFENDING THE COUNTRY AND CONTROLLING ITS SECURITY, WILL TAKE 7 YEARS. WHAT I'VE BEEN TELLING EVERYBODY IS THAT 2011 IS WHEN THE IRAQI ARMY WOULD BE CAPABLE OF DOING THAT. NOW THE QUESTION IS: DO WE HAVE THE WILL TO WAIT UNTIL THEN. THE BREAKING DOWN OF IRAQ INTO SO MANY HOSTILE FACTIONS HAS IT'S ROOTS IN HISTORY WHICH IN THE WAKE OF WWI GREAT BRITTAN HOBBLED TOGETHER A NATION FROM A COLLECTION OF DISTINCT ETHNIC, TRIBAL, AND RELIGIOUS GROUPS. WITH ALL THE NAMES THAT ARE BANDIED ABOUT, WE WANTED TO SPEND A FEW MINUTES TO TRY TO EXPLAIN TO BACK UP AND TAKE A WIDE SHOT OF THE REGION SO YOU CAN BETTER UNDERSTAND WHY THE AMERICAN MISSION IS SO DIFFICULT.

IN IRAQ, WE HAVE A COUNTRY TODAY WHICH IS PREDOMINANTLY ARAB EXCEPT FOR THE KURDS IN THE NORTH A COUNTRY IN WHICH THE MAJORITY SHIITE MUSLIMS LIVE PRIMARILY IN THE SOUTH AND THE SUNNI MUSLIMS DOMINATE THE CENTER OF THE COUNTRY. THOUGH SUNNIS ARE IN THE MINORITY, THEY HAVE HISTORICALLY HELD THE POLITICAL POWER; SADDAM HUSSEIN WAS A SUNNI. FURTHER COMPLICATING THE PICTURE ARE TINY ENCLAVES OF CHRISTIAN MINORITIES IN THE NORTH, INCLUDING THE ASSYRIANS, WHO COMPRISE ABOUT 2% OF THE COUNTRY'S POPULATION. SADDAM HUSSEIN KEPT THIS PATCHWORK TOGETHER THROUGH BRUTAL OPPRESSION AND FEAR. IN THE JOCKEYING FOR POWER THAT FOLLOWED THE U.S. INVASION, LONG-SIMMERING SECTARIAN AND ETHNIC RIVALRIES HAVE BOILED OVER BRINGING US, IN ESCALATING ACTS OF VIOLENCE AND REVENGE, TO WHAT WE TODAY CALL A CIVIL WAR. WITH SO MANY EXPERTS NOW PROPOSING SOLUTIONS FOR IRAQ. I WANTED TO HEAR FROM ACTUAL MEMBERS OF THESE GROUPS, ALL NOW AMERICANS, WHAT THEY THEMSELVES THINK IS NEXT FOR THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. LAITH KUBBA IS A SHIA MUSLIM, BORN IN BAGHDAD. HE WORKS FOR THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY. YASIR SHALLAL IS A SUNNI MUSLIM HE, TOO, IMMIGRATED TO THE UNITED STATES FROM IRAQ AND BECAME AN ENGINEER AND A BUSINESSMAN. KANI XULAM IS KURDISH, BORN IN TURKEY. HE WORKS FOR THE AMERICAN KUDISH INFORMATION NETWORK, AND HE FIGHTS FOR A FREE KURDISTAN. WALEETA CANON IS AN ASSYRIAN CHRISTIAN FROM AN IRAQI FAMILY. SHE IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE ASSYRIA FOUNDATION, A GROUP THAT PROMOTES ASSYRIAN CULTURE. WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU ALL FOR DOING THIS. I REALLY APPRECIATE EACH OF YOU BEING HERE. AND WHAT WE'RE ATTEMPTING TO DO IN OUR OWN SMALL WAY IS TO SHED AT LEAST A WEE SMALL LIGHT ON WHAT AMERICANS DON'T KNOW THAT THEY SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THE COMPLEXITIES OF IRAQ. AND WHAT IS THE SITUATION FROM YOUR STANDPOINT? I THINK IRAQI IDENTITY HAS BECOME HAS BECOME LOST IN ESSENCE. AND WE'VE ALL BEEN REDUCED AS IRAQIS TO THE ETHNIC AND THE SECTARIAN SORT OF DIVIDE THAT HAS NEVER BEEN AS PRONOUNCED AS IT'S BECOME NOW, I THINK DIVISION IS THE NEXT STEP. WHAT YOU FORESEE IS THE VERY REAL POSSIBILITY OF THE COUNTRY BEING SPLIT INTO THREE COUNTRIES. I BELIEVE SO. AND YOUR OPINION ON WHERE THINGS ARE AND WHERE THEY'RE GOING? WELL FIRST OF ALL, TO TALK ABOUT IRAQ, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT TWO IRAQIS. THERE IS THE NORTH OF IRAQ, WHICH IS THE KURDISH REGION. CURRENTLY STABLE, PROSPEROUS, DOING WELL. AND THERE IS THE REST OF IRAQ, FROM MOSUL, ALL THE WAY TO BASRA. WHICH IS ON FIRE. WE'RE FEELING THE THREATS FROM EVERY SIDE. WE DO NOT KNOW WHO IS GOING TO KILL WHO. BUT ULTIMATELY, WE KNOW WE'RE LOSING OUR FA-- FAMILY MEMBERS. IT'S VERY MUCH-- A FIRE FROM WITHIN. IF THE DIVISION WOULD BRING PEACE, I WOULD SAY DIVIDE THE COUNTRY. MY CONCERN, DIVISION IS AN ILLUSION OF PEACE. IT WILL NOT BRING PEACE. YOU'RE JUST GOING TO INSTITUTIONALIZE LONG-TERM PROBLEMS THAT ARE GOING TO BLEED FOR A LONG TIME. THE CONFLICT IN IRAQ HAS THE CAPACITY TO SUSTAIN ITSELF FOR DECADES, BECAUSE COMMUNITIES THERE HAVE THEIR ROOTS IN NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES AND THIS FLAME CAN GO ON AND ON. THE FLAME CAN GO ON AND ON. DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? I ACTUALLY, I DO AGREE WITH THAT. I THINK THAT'S A VERY APT ASSESSMENT OF WHAT'S GOING ON. THE ASSYRIAN CHRISTIANS HAVE PRESSURE FROM ALL SIDES AROUND THEM. THEY ARE TARGETED BY ISLAMISTS AND JIHADISTS FOR THEIR CHRISTIAN FAITH. THEY'RE ATTACKED PHYSICALLY IN THE SOUTH. ONE OF OUR BISHOPS WAS BEHEADED RECENTLY. CHILDREN ARE BEING CRUCIFIED, LITERALLY CRUCIFIED IN HOW THEY'RE BEING KILLED. ASSYRIAN CHRISTIANS, WHICH IS NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE NATIONAL IDENTITY OF SYRIA. RIGHT. THAT'S A SEPARATE COUNTRY. ASSYRIAN CHRISTIANS ARE THE DESCEN-- THE DESCENDANTS OF THE MESOPOTAMIANS. THE ANCIENTS ASSYRIANS-- THEY STILL LIVE THERE. I WOULD SAY THAT WHEN WE DISCUSS BREAKING UP IRAQ, WE HAVE TO BE VERY CERTAIN WHAT THAT MEANS FOR ALL OF THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ. AND IN LEAVING THEM ABLE TO SECURE THEMSELVES AND ABLE TO LIVE SIDE BY SIDE WITH EACH OTHER. I WOULD SAY LET LIKE, LET IRAQ BREAK UP. LET SAUDIS TAKE OVER THE SUNNI AREA. IF SHIITES WANT TO HAVE THEIR OWN STATE, THAT'S FINE. AND IF THE KURDS WANT TO HAVE THEIR OWN STATE, THAT'S FINE TOO. WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ELECTIONS THAT TOOK PLACE. PEOPLE VOTED AT LONG SECTARIAN LINES. WHICH MEANS, PEOPLE HAVE LOST FAITH IN THE OTHER COMMUNITIES. THERE'S NO IRAQ. IRAQ IS A-- A DIPLOMATIC CONSTRUCT. IT'S A FICTITIOUS CONSTRUCT. IT WAS PUT TOGETHER BY WINSTON CHURCHILL ON MARCH 12, 1921 IN CAIRO. WITHOUT HIM EVEN STEPPING ON THE SOIL OF IRAQ. SO, FOR US TO NOW WORSHIP THIS COUNTRY, FOR US TO NOW THINK THAT, GOD FORBID, IF WE CHANGE IT AND THEN THINGS WILL GO TO HELL, IS WRONG. IS THERE A COURSE FOR THE UNITED STATES? A POSITIVE COURSE? OR IS IT A CASE THAT THERE ARE NO GOOD OPTIONS LEFT AND THE UNITED STATES MUST TAKE A BEST OF A BAD LOT OF OPTIONS? I'M AFRAID IT'S COMING TO THAT POINT VERY QUICKLY. AND FOR THIS TO COME TO THE FOREFRONT NOW, OBVIOUSLY HAS TO SOMETHING HAD TO HAPPEN TO INSTIGATE THAT. HAD TO HAPPEN TO REALLY GET IT TO THAT LEVEL OF ANIMOSITY THAT HAS BEEN PUSHED. AND THIS THAT SOMETHING WAS WHAT? WELL, CERTAINLY THE OCCUPATION WAS THE FIRST STEP. AND THE BRUTAL OCCUPATION AS IT WAS BECAUSE REALLY THERE WAS NO UNDERSTANDING OF THE COUNTRY AND ALL OF IT'S DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES AND SECTORS AND THE THE THINGS THAT HELD IT TOGETHER. DESPITE THE BRUTALITY OF THE DICTATORSHIP OF SADAAM AND AND EVEN OTHERS IN THE PAST. COMMUNITIES HAVE INTERMARRIED AND LIVED TOGETHER FOR MANY, MANY YEARS. IT IS A TESTAMENT TO THE FACT THAT PEOPLE CAN GET ALONG IF THERE IS A SENSE OF OWNERSHIP AND A SENSE OF TRUST THAT COULD BE BUILT ON. AND THROUGH YOUR PERSPECTIVE? I SEE FOR THE REST OF IRAQ, IT CAN MAKE PERFECT SENSE THAT THE REST OF IRAQ IS INTEGRATED IN ONE. AND I DO SEE A STRONG AUTONOMOUS, FEDERAL, CALL IT WHAT YOU LIKE, REGION, KURDISH REGION. TO LET IRAQ BREAK DOWN INTO THREE WOULD SIMPLY MEAN ALLOWING THE SUNNI REGION TO BECOME RADICALIZED AL QAIDA AFFILIATE. ALLOWING A SHIITE REGION TO BE SATELLITE TO IRAN. AND A KURDISH REGION THAT WOULD VERY MUCH PROVOKE REACTION FROM TURKEY AND IRAN. TURKEY, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS PUBLICLY STATED THAT SHOULD THE KURDS IN THE NORTH DECLARE EVEN COME CLOSE TO DECLARING A KURDISTAN, THEY WILL MOVE. THEY HAVE ALWAYS SENT TANKS OVER THE BORDER AND BACK I WOULD SAY, LET THEM COME.. THE DESIRE TO BE FREE IS INHERENT. THE TURKS ARE MAKING NOISE, BUT I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GONNA MOVE IN THERE. THEY WILL LOSE THEIR CHANCE TO JOIN THE EU. AS FAR AS THE NEIGHBORS OF IRAQ, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM THINKS IRAQ IS A WOUNDED CARIBOU, AND THEY'RE LIKE WOLVES, READY TO ATTACK IT. THEY DON'T HAVE THE BEST INTERESTS OF IRAQ AT HEART. THERE IS A SCHOOL OF THOUGHT THAT SAYS, BADLY AS THE UNITED STATES MIGHT WANT TO LEAVE, WE CAN'T LEAVE BECAUSE THE SECOND WE LEAVE, IRAN WILL CONTROL A LARGE PART OF AT LEAST THE SOUTHERN PART AND EASTERN PARTS OF IRAQ. THE TURKS WILL MOVE ON THE KURDS. THE SYRIANS WILL PLAY THEIR PART OF THE GAME. AND THAT FROM THE STANDPOINT OF UNITED STATES NATIONAL SECURITY, TO SAY NOTHING OF THE PEACE AND SECURITY OF THE REGION IN THE WORLD, THERE JUST CAN'T BE DONE. WELL, I'M NOT A MILITARY STRATEGIST, BUT I THINK THAT AN IMMEDIATE PULL-OUT WOULD BE A DISASTER. A GRADUAL PULL-OUT, MAKING SURE THAT EVERYONE IS SECURE AND SAFE BEFORE THE US PRESENCE EITHER DISAPPEARS OR DISSIPATES TO A POINT WHERE IT'S NEGLIGIBLE IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE. I CAN'T BEGIN TO GUESS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF IT WEREN'T DONE LIKE THAT. AND YOUR ASSESSMENT? NONE OF US AROUND THIS TABLE ARE MILITARY STRATEGISTS (LAUGHTER) I MEAN ON SADDAM'S WATCH, LITERALLY, CLOSE TO MILLIONS OF PEOPLE DIED KURDS, ARABS, SUNNIS, SHIITES, ASSYRIANS. AND FOR US TO PANIC NOW, IT'S SAD. IT IS UNFORGIVABLE WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE GROUND. BUT, WE SHOULD ALSO I THINK IF AMERICANS LEAVE, IT WON'T BE THE END OF THE WORLD. IT WON'T BE THE END OF THE MIDDLE EAST. SOME PEOPLE THINK AMERICANS ARE THE SOURCE OF ATTRACTION. ARE THE ONES THAT ARE ATTRACTING THIS TERRORISM, IF YOU WILL. NO ONE WANTS TO BE DOMINATED. THE KURDS DON'T WANT TO BE DOMINATED BY ARABS. THE ARABS DON'T WANT TO BE DOMINATED BY AMERICANS. WE SHOULD WE SHOULD WE SHOULD FOLLOW THAT POLICY WHERE THE AMERICANS ARE WANTED. THEY ARE WANTED IN KURDISTAN, FOR EXAMPLE. NOT WHERE THEY'RE NOT WANTED. ULTIMATELY AMERICA WILL LEAVE AND IRAQ'S NEIGHBORS ARE NOT GOING TO LEAVE SO WE'RE STUCK WITH THE GEOGRAPHY THAT WE HAVE. I THINK THE IRANIANS HAVE BEEN SMART UP UNTIL NOW TO LET ALL THE AMERICANS DO THE HEAVY WORK FOR THEM. REMOVE SADAAM. MORE OR LESS, LEVEL THE GROUNDS FOR THEM. IRAN HAS IMPERIAL AMBITIONS. AND IT IS EXPECTED THAT THEY'LL HAVE TENDENCIES TO EXERT INFLUENCE OVER IRAQ AND OVER THE GULF. UNFORTUNATELY, THE WEAKNESS THAT WE HAVE IN IRAQ DOES LEAVE IT EXPOSED TO NEIGHBORS' INFLUENCE. THIS IS THE WHAT I CALL THE NIGHTMARE SCENARIO. WHAT AL QAIDA WANTED AND GOT IN IRAQ IS TO HAVE A TRAINING CAMP WHERE PEOPLE BECOMES KILLERS. WE MUST FIX IRAQ. WE CANNOT SIMPLY WALK OUT. THERE WAS NO AL QAIDA IN IRAQ BEFORE THE AMERICANS INVASION CAME ABOUT. SO, EVEN FROM AN IDEOLOGICAL POINT OF VIEW, I DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO THINK OF IRAQ AS BEING AN AL QAIDA BASE BECAUSE WHETHER YOU'RE SUNNI, SHIITE OR ANY OTHER MUSLIM SECT WITHIN THE COUNTRY, YOU HAVE YOUR OWN IDENTITY. AND I THINK THE RADICAL PORTION OF ISLAM THAT HAS BEEN DOMINANT IN AFGHANISTAN AND OTHER PLACES HAS COME IN BECAUSE OF A VACUUM. BECAUSE OF A WEAKNESS. TO THOSE AMERICANS, FELLOW AMERICANS WHO SAY, WE'VE DONE ALL WE CAN. WE'VE FOUGHT THE GOOD FIGHT. WE'VE KEPT THE FAITH UP. BUT WE'VE LOST TOO MANY SONS. WE'VE LOST- A LOT OF OUR MONEY. AND WE'VE WEAKENED OURSELVES. AND SO A STRATEGIC RETREAT A STRATEGIC WITHDRAWAL IS NOT ONLY ADVISABLE, BUT IT'S IMPERATIVE. YOU WOULD SAY WHAT? I MEAN, THE NATIONS DON'T FOLLOW A STRAIGHT PATH INTO THE FUTURE. THERE'S NO SUCH A LIKE, MANUAL HOW TO GO TO TOMORROW. THEY FOLLOW A CROOKED PATH. MIDDLE EAST WAS NOT MIDDLE EAST UNTIL 1920S. ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU HAVE THESE ARTIFICIAL BORDERS THERE, AND NOW WE THINK THEY'RE SACRED. NOW WE ARE WILLING TO SHED THE BLOOD OF AMERICANS FROM MISSISSIPPI, FROM ALABAMA, FOR THEIR SAKE. THAT IS WRONG. I WOULD DEFINITELY SAY, YES, A LOT OF AMERICAN BLOODSHED HAS BEEN LOST. A LOT OF IRAQI BLOOD HAS BEEN LOST. BUT THE IDEA OF LEAVING IMMEDIATELY, DOING ALL THAT THEY CAN, YOU HAVE TO STOP AND THINK FIRST OF ALL, YOU HAVE TO STOP AND REALIZE THAT THE PROBLEMS OF IRAQ ARE GOING TO FOLLOW AT HOME. THEY'RE GOING TO FOLLOW US TO THE UNITED STATES. THEY'RE GOING TO SPILL INTO THE NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES. THE IDEA OF LETTING IRAQ BREAK UP SHOULD BE AN IRAQI DECISION. IT SHOULDN'T BE AN AMERICAN DECISION. IT SHOULDN'T BE A BAKER REPORT DECISION. IF THE SHIITES AND THE SUNNIS AND THE KURDS AND THE ASSYRIANS DECIDE THEY WANT TO BREAK IT UP, IT IS THEIRS TO MAKE. MOST IRAQIS, I BELIEVE, ARE LOYAL IRAQIS. THEY THEY BELIEVE IN THE IRAQI IDENTITY. THE IRAQI CITIZENSHIP. THEY ARE CAUGHT IN AN UNFORTUNATE MESS IN THE MIDDLE EAST, BUT TO ALLOW IT TO BREAK APART AND FALL APART WOULD NOT LEAVE AMERICA ANY SAFER. WOULD NOT LEAVE THE NEIGHBORS ANY SAFER. AND IT WOULD BE STRATEGICALLY A MESS. I THANK YOU ALL.

GLACIER NATIONAL PARK IN NORTHWEST MONTANA IS AN ISOLATED EXPANSE OF JAGGED PEAKS AND BREATHTAKING WILDERNESS. IT'S ONE OF LARGEST, MOST INTACT ECOSYSTEMS IN NORTH AMERICA AN ECOSYSTEM THAT IS A REFUGE FOR WILDLIFE. IT IS ALSO ONE OF THE LAST PLACES IN AMERICA WHERE GRIZZLY BEARS CAN ROAM FREE. THERE ARE VERY FEW ANIMALS ON A WORLDWIDE BASIS THAT ELICIT AS MUCH RESPECT, LOVE, FEAR AND HATE AS THE GRIZZLY BEAR STUDYING GRIZZLY BEARS IS THE WORK OF RESEARCH BIOLOGIST RICK MACE WITH MONTANA FISH WILDLIFE AND PARKS. THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT A MAN- EATER, EVEN AN OCCASIONAL MAN-EATER THAT BUILDS IN THE LORE OF A PARTICULAR SOCIETY AND THE TRUTHS AND STORIES THAT ARE TOLD OVER THE TIME WELL UP UNTIL FINALLY THE ANIMAL IS LARGER THAN LIFE AND JUST PLAIN LARGE A MONTANA MALE GRIZZLY CAN WEIGH UP TO 800 POUNDS AND EAT AS MUCH AS 50 POUNDS A DAY AS HE NEARS HIBERNATION. BUT THROUGHOUT THE WEST THE GRIZZLY BEAR IS IN PERIL. TODAY GRIZZLIES POPULATE JUST 2% OF THEIR HISTORIC RANGE WHICH ONCE REACHED FROM THE PLAINS TO THE PACIFIC AND INTO MEXICO. IN NORTHWEST MONTANA THERE ARE LESS THAN A 1000 LEFT. IN 1975 AS THE GRIZZLY LOOMED ON THE BRINK OF EXTINCTION, IT WAS PLACED ON THE ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST. NOW MORE THAN 30 YEARS LATER GRIZZLY BEARS SEEM TO BE MAKING A COMEBACK. THE DIVERSE FOREST OF THE NORTHWEST CONTINENTAL DIVIDE IS CONSIDERED THE BEST HABITAT FOR LONG TERM SURVIVAL OF THE BEAR BUT THEY ARE NOT OUT OF THE WOODS YET. AS PEOPLE CROWD THEM THE GRIZZLY IS INCREASINGLY HAVING TO SHARE THE REAL ESTATE THEY LOOK AT A PLACE LIKE GLACIER NATIONAL PARK MONTANA AND SAY THERE'S 400 BEARS ALL IS GOOD BUT THEY HAVE TO REALIZE THAT REPRESENTS 50 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION RIGHT NOW WHAT'S LEFT FOR GRIZZLY BEARS YOU CAN WALK AROUND IN A DAY YOU CAN DRIVE AROUND IN SIX HOURS THAT'S WHAT'S LEFT. BUT BEARS DON'T KNOW BORDERS AND IN THE LAST THREE YEARS MORE THAN 70 BEARS HAVE BEEN KILLED BECAUSE OF ENCOUNTERS WITH MAN. FOR THEIR OWN GOOD, SOME OF THE BEARS ARE WATCHED LIKE HAWKS. BUT FIRST THEY HAVE TO BE CAUGHT AND COLLARED SO TRAPS ARE SET UP LIKE THIS ONE OUTSIDE OF GLACIER NATIONAL PARK.

THESE ANIMALS HAVE ENORMOUS STRENGTH. JUST WATCH WHAT THIS FIFTEEN YOUR OLD FEMALE DOES TO THIS STEEL ROD AS BIOLOGISTS TRY TO SEDATE HER FOR RESEARCH.

TANYA GIVES BEAR SHOT " HOLY MONKEYS" NO. BUT SHE'S DOPEY

SHE'S GOING DOWN NOW

OVER THE NEXT HOUR THE BEAR THEY CALL THE BIG CREEK FEMALE FOR THE DRAINAGE AREA SHE FREQUENTS GIVES SCIENTISTS HAIR AND BLOOD SAMPLES FOR DNA IDENTIFICATION SHE'S ALSO MEASURED AND CHECKED THOROUGHLY

(GROAN) SHE IS ALSO FITTED WITH A G-P-S COLLAR THAT WILL TRACK HER BY SATELLITE AS SHE MOVES ABOUT THE HABITAT. WHEN THE BIG CREEK FEMALE WAKES UP SHE WILL BE PART OF A STUDY OF BEARS IN THE NORTHWEST CONTINENTAL DIVIDE ECOSYSTEM THAT WILL EVENTUALLY HELP DETERMINE WHETHER THE GRIZZLY MEETS THE CRITERIA FOR REMOVING IT FROM THE ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST.

(WHISPER) RIGHT NOW SHE ISN'T INTERESTED IN US

GO!

RICK MACE: IF THE POPULATION NUMBERS ARE HIGH AND THE TREND IS STABLE TO INCREASING THAT BODES WELL FOR DELISTING THE GRIZZLY BEAR UNDER THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT HOWEVER THERE ARE THOSE WHO SUGGEST HAVING 800-1000 GRIZZLY BEARS IN A WORLD WHERE THERE USED TO BE 100,000 IS AN INADEQUATE NUMBER RICK MACE IS HEAD OF A THREE YEAR OLD STUDY THAT IS LOOKING AT SURVIVAL AND REPRODUCTION OF GRIZZLY BEARS IN NORTHWEST MONTANA. SO HERE'S AN INTERESTING BEAR FROM A COMPUTER IN HIS OFFICE, RICK DOWNLOADS DATA FROM 30 COLLARED BEARS AND TRACKS THEIR MOVEMENTS THROUGHOUT NORTHWEST MONTANA. WHAT'S INTERESTING IF WE PAN NORTH WE SEE THIS BEAR HAS MADE THREE MOVEMENTS OF OVER 60 MILES APIECE UP AND NORTH INTO THE VALLEY WHERE THE CITY OF KALISPELL IS. SO, THIS BEAR NAVIGATED EXTENSIVELY THROUGH THE VALLEY AND NEVER ONCE GOT INTO TROUBLE. BUT BEARS DO GET INTO TROUBLE AS THEY MIGRATE FROM AREAS LIKE GLACIER NATIONAL PARK WHERE THEY ARE PROTECTED INTO POPULATION CENTERS LIKE KALISPELL AND WHITEFISH IN NORTHWEST MONTANA. THERE THEY BECOME USED TO HUMANS AND WHAT THEY SEE AS AN EASY UNLIMITED FOOD SUPPLY.

A HUNDRED YEARS AGO THIS AREA WAS WILDERNESS. TODAY THERE ARE OVER 80,000 RESIDENTS IN THE AREA AND PEOPLE AND BEARS OFTEN COLLIDE. RICK MACE: LOOK AT THIS WELCOME TO GRIZZLY BEAR HABITAT FOR SALE FOR SALE FOR SALE THE MOUNTAINS ARE FOR THE BEARS THE VALLEYS ARE FOR THE HUMANS THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THE BEARS DON'T KNOW THAT AND BEARS SEASONALLY COME DOWN OUT OF THE MOUNTAINS INTO THESE NEW AREAS THAT ARE GOING FROM RURAL TO SUBURBAN AND THEY'RE MEETING WITH LOTS OF PROBLEMS WITH HUMANS. WE'RE GOING TO SET UP THIS BIG TRAP AND WE'RE GOING TO RIG IT SO HE HAS TO GO ALL THE WAY TO THE FRONT OF THE TRAP TO GET ANY OF THE BAIT TIM MANLEY A MANAGEMENT SPECIALIST FROM MONTANA FISH WILDLIFE AND PARKS IS DEALING WITH A PROBLEM THAT'S BECOMING ALL TOO COMMON, BEARS ARRIVING FOR DINNER UNINVITED AND UNANNOUNCED. ON SANDRA GARRETT'S LAND A GRIZZLY HAS MADE A MEAL FROM HER CHICKEN COUP AND RABBIT HUTCH NOW MANLEY IS TRYING TO TRAP THE BEAR AND MOVE IT TO SAFER TERRITORY. HE'S AN EVIL BEAR THE RABBITS WERE THE MOST DEVASTATING I BUILT THE RABBIT HUTCH SO I TOOK ABOUT A WEEK OF MY OWN HAND SKILLS I GUESS YOU CAN CALL IT AND THE WORST PART WAS BEING PRETTY UPSET TRYING TO TELL MY 10 YEAR OLD THAT HIS RABBITS WERE GONE THAT WAS PRETTY UPSETTING. SO THIS ONE HAS A RAMP SO HE CAN WALK RIGHT UP THE RAMP SO WE'RE GOING TO BAIT ALL THAT UP SANDRA: I HOPE THEY GET IT AND PUT HIM SOMEWHERE ELSE WHERE HE CAN ROAM AROUND AND HIBERNATE AND BE HAPPY AND STAY AWAY FROM MY CHICKENS AND MY RABBITS AND MY HOUSE. IN PREVIOUS GENERATIONS IF A BEAR WANDERED INTO SOMEONE'S BACKYARD THE MOTTO WAS SHOOT SHOVEL AND SHUT UP BUT TODAY MANY PEOPLE ARE MORE FORGIVING. TIM: I'VE SEEN A CHANGE IN SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE DEALT WITH ORIGINALLY. PEOPLE DIDN'T TOLERATE BEARS BEING IN THEIR BACKYARDS OR BEING CLOSE TO THEIR HOMES AND OVER THE YEARS WE'VE SEEN A CHANGE IN THEIR ATTITUDES. PEOPLE ARE A LITTLE MORE TOLERANT AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT COMING IN AND GETTING INTO THEIR STUFF. BUT OTHERS ARE LESS TOLERANT BECAUSE OF RESTRICTIONS IMPLEMENTED SINCE GRIZZLY BEARS WERE PROTECTED WHEN THEY WENT ON THE ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST. HUNTING OF GRIZZLIES WAS INITIALLY REDUCED AND IN THE EARLY 90'S STOPPED ALTOGETHER. ROADS ON PUBLIC LANDS WERE CLOSED TO MOTORIZED VEHICLES TO PROTECT PRIME GRIZZLY BEAR HABITAT. THIS LIMITED RECREATION AND TIMBERING OPTIONS IN SOME AREAS OF THE NATIONAL FOREST. IT LED TO PRODUCTION DECLINES AND SOME JOB LOSSES FOR THOSE WHO MADE A LIVING OFF THE LAND. ( CHAINSAW ) FRED HODGEBOOM IS A RETIRED FORESTER WITH AN ORGANIZATION CALLED MONTANANS FOR MULTIPLE USE. HE BELIEVES LISTING THE GRIZZLY MAY BE SAVING THE BEAR BUT IS KILLING THE ECONOMY. FRED: THEY'VE RIPPED OUT HUNDREDS OF MILES OF ROAD BUILT WITH PUBLIC MONEY FOR MULTIPLE USE PURPOSES WHICH INCLUDE MANAGING THE LAND PROTECTING THE LAND FROM FIRE INSECT AND DISEASE AND NOW THAT LAND HAS NO ACCESS. FRED INSISTS THE GRIZZLY POPULATION IS HEALTHY AND SAYS THE BEARS DO BETTER IN ROADED, MANAGED FORESTS WHERE VEGETATION IS DIVERSE. HIS DATA SHOWS THEY PREFER IT OVER WILDERNESS. I THINK THERE'S A PLACE FOR WILDERNESS' WE HAVE A LOT OF WILDERNESS YOU KNOW I THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE FINE WITH THAT IT'S JUST THAT A LOT OF US ARE SAYING HOW MUCH DO WE NEED FOR CRYING OUT LOUD C'MON CAT DESPITE COMPLAINTS, PROTECTIONS SEEM TO BE WORKING. LEE DOWNES WHO LIVES NEAR POLEBRIDGE SEES MANY MORE BEARS THAN HE DID A GENERATION AGO. YEARS AGO YOU SEE 1 OR 2 A YEAR THAT WAS IT BUT NOW IT'S NOTHING TO SEE 25 OR 30. IT'S KIND OF LIKE LIVING IN A COMBAT ZONE YOU STEP OUT THE DOOR YOU GOT TO MAKE SURE IF YOU'RE GOING TO THE SHOP THERE'S NO BEAR AROUND THERE'S THOSE WE HAVE OUR SAVORIES BUT DEB KAUFMAN WHO OWNS THE POLEBRIDGE MERCANTILE SAYS THERE AREN'T ENOUGH BEARS TO CONSIDER DELISTING. DEB: NOBODY CAN PROVE TO ME THERE'S TOO MANY GRIZZLY BEARS IN THE ENVIRONMENT. HER STORE IS A GATHERING PLACE WHERE PEOPLE OFTEN TALK ABOUT GRIZZLIES AND THE THREATS THEY FACE. THEY HAD A LOT OF BEAR PROBLEMS ON THE EAST SIDE LAST YEAR I KNOW THE TRAIN TOOK A FEW OUT DEB: IT'S HARD FOR BEARS TO MAKE A LIVING THAT'S THE WAY I FEEL WE KEEP CROWDING THEM AND CROWDING THEM INTO SMALLER AREAS OF OUR COUNTRY AND BECAUSE THEY'RE SO BEAUTIFUL THAT'S WHERE WE GO TOO DEB: THIS IS KIND OF THE LAST STOP ON THE ROAD FOR THEM AND IF THEY HAVE TO LEAVE HERE THEY PROBABLY LEAVE DEAD. BEARS ARE EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS AND IT CAN TAKE DAYS OR WEEKS BEFORE THE ANIMALS ARE CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO CLIMB INTO A TRAP. SCIENTISTS ALSO USE HIDDEN LEG SNARES TO TRAP THEM. (GROANS)

BESIDES BEING MONITORED BY SATELLITE, THE RELEASED BEARS ARE ALSO TRACKED BY RADIO TELEMETRY FROM THE GROUND AND FROM THE AIR. SO MUCH OVERSIGHT IS NECESSARY BECAUSE IT WILL TAKE YEARS TO DRAW ANY MEANINGFUL CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THE BEARS' ABILITY TO SURVIVE. THE ENTIRE RESEARCH PROGRAM INDEED THE FUTURE OF NORTHWEST MONTANA'S GRIZZLY BEARS HINGES ON FIGURING OUT WHO IS ALIVE AND WHO IS DEAD. THERE ARE A LOT OF WAYS TO DIE OUT HERE IF YOU'RE A BEAR BUT THE POPULATION SEEMS TO BE DOING PRETTY DARN WELL PRETTY RESILIENT RIGHT NOW WHEN YOU FLY IT LIKE WE ARE RIGHT NOW AND YOU CAN FLY FROM ONE EXTREME TO THE OTHER OF GRIZZLY BEAR HABITAT AND YOU CAN DO IT IN 35 MINUTES IT REALLY GIVES YOU AN IDEA HOW SMALL THE AREA WE HAVE LEFT FOR GRIZZLY BEARS IN THE LOWER 48 REALLY IS UNFORTUNATELY ON THIS DAY THE BIG CREEK FEMALE WAS NO WHERE TO BE FOUND. FOUR DAYS AFTER SHE WAS COLLARED SHE WAS FOUND NEAR A ROAD SHOT AND KILLED. IT'S ANOTHER CASUALTY FOR A SPECIES THAT COULD BE NEARING THE END OF THE LINE. EVEN WITH RESEARCH, CONSTANT MANAGEMENT AND A GRIZZLY BEAR POPULATION THAT MIGHT BE RECOVERING ENOUGH TO SOMEDAY COME OFF THE ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST THEIR LONG TERM FUTURE 100 YEARS FROM NOW 200 YEARS FROM NOW REMAINS VERY PRECARIOUS INDEED. RICK: THE LINE IN THE SAND BETWEEN PEOPLE AND WILDLIFE IS GETTING MORE AND MORE DEFINED. ON THIS SIDE OF THE ROAD WE'RE IN GRIZZLY HABITAT LEGAL AND DESIGNATED ON THIS SIDE OF THE ROAD WE'RE OUTSIDE OF GRIZZLY HABITAT WHERE ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN AND THE ROAD IS ONLY 15 FEET WIDE. THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH WE CAN DO UNLESS HUMANS ARE WILLING TO PULL BACK AND SO FAR WE'VE NEVER SEEN HUMANS PULL BACK VERY FAR. RICK: THERE'S NO ONE IN THE WORLD WHO SAYS WE HAVE TO HAVE GRIZZLY BEARS THE WORLD WILL SPIN EVERYTHING WILL STILL GO ON BASICALLY AS IT ALWAYS HAD THE WORLD WILL NOT COLLAPSE IF WE DON'T HAVE GRIZZLY BEARS BUT THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF US THAT THINK WE DO NEED THESE KIND OF ANIMALS. AND SO, TO BORROW A LINE FROM SHAKESPEARE, WE EXIT, PURSUED BY A BEAR. EXITS HAVE BEEN BIG NEWS IN THE PAST WEEK, AS SEEMINGLY ALL OF WASHINGTON DEBATES POSSIBLE EXIT STRATEGIES FOR IRAQ IN THE FACE OF PRESIDENT BUSH, FOR HIS OWN PART, SEEKING TO QUASH TALK OF, QUOTE, " A GRACEFUL EXIT" FROM U.S. COMMITMENTS THERE. ONE RECENT RECOMMENDATION THAT THE PRESIDENT MIGHT EMBRACE, THOUGH, CONCERNS REDOUBLING OUR MILITARY'S EFFORTS TO TRAIN IRAQI TROOPS- INTENSIFYING AND FOCUSING THE STRATEGY OF " AS THEY STAND UP, WE'LL STAND DOWN." BUT AFTER TALKING TO SOME OF THE MEN WHO HAVE WALKED THAT WALK, WHO HAVE BEEN ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN THAT EFFORT ONE IS STRUCK BY THE GULF BETWEEN THE EASY TALK AND POSTURING OF SUNDAY POLITICAL TALK SHOWS AND THE DEVILING DETAILS OF WHAT IT TAKES TO ACTUALLY GET THE JOB DONE. AS A POET T.S. ELLIOTT ONCE WROTE, BETWEEN THE IDEA AND THE REALITY FALLS THE SHADOW. AND ALL THOSE WHO ARE SO EAGER NOW TO OFFER ADVICE ON THE FATE OF A NATION- AND OUR MEN AND WOMEN IN UNIFORM- WOULD PROBABLY DO WELL TO LISTEN TO WHAT THOSE WHO HAVE WALKED IN THAT SHADOW HAVE TO SAY. FOR HDNET, DAN RATHER REPORTS. GOOD NIGHT.